Goodness me! I don't think I've had to address a subject so often on this forum before when its only connection to karaoke is the possibility it may happen on a karaoke night... but here goes...

jlee and JAMES.t.ORR...
My thanks to you for the votes of confidence.
jlee, I had the theory that taking out the leader first might be the ticket but I have never had opportunity to put that to the test, so, I didn't want to say it in case my mistaken theory caused injury to someone for following it.
James, it is nice to get a ringing endorsement about what works in the real world. Many folk don't know what does or what doesn't which may be nice on the surface because they obviously are lucky enough to not have needed to put anything like that to the test before but at the same time, it is best to be informed as one can be 'just in case.' Don't you agree?

Kev...
1st, I did state specifically that one should not let the ever present threat of violence and looking over one's shoulder ruin a night out, comparing it with crossing the street, if you recall. I had hoped people would try to glean the positive from what I was trying to get across and not focus on the negatives.
2nd, the phenomenon of karaoke turning a venue around as you've described is always a great one. I've seen several pubs enjoy such turnarounds. However, over the 13 years I have attended karaoke, I have also seen many venues - even good ones with good locations - suffer from violent folk cos often, karaoke is not the drawcard for the place but merely endures because the venue has so many patrons that there are enough who are just willing to try the karaoke for fun since they happen to be there, which proves enough to keep the gig going. They did not necessarily turn up to sing. So, I repeat that it is a good idea to remain alert. That doesn't mean being fearful. More like when you're expecting a telephone call or friends to knock on your door. You're doing other stuff but you know to keep your senses attuned. When out at karaoke or dancing at a club (another situation in which most people are there for the same reason - no, not picking up, DANCING!), I attune mine to the possibility of bad elements.
For the 3rd part, I shall now address catman's post...

catman...
My sympathy to you for your sons and I thank you for taking issue with my point. However, it was but one point and not an encouragement. Did you miss the bit about violence being the LAST RESORT? Also, armed or unarmed, 2 against 10 is not good odds even if you are a highly graded martial arts student. Personally, I think armed is better when outnumbered. However, EVASION is the key. You want to get away. Despite the popular myth that martial arts is all about chop-saki action and weird confucious type attitudes, it is really about avoiding violence and coexisiting peacefully with others whilst achieving self esteem and confidence.
Anyway, like I said, it is the last resort to fight. If you have a phone on you, call the police, let them know you are being followed, fear for your life and require immediate assistance. Alternatively, call a friend with a car to come collect you, hopefully honking their horn and flashing their lights as they pass the would be assailants just to distract them a bit before you make your escape in the car. Flagging down taxis or passing motorists is a long shot but worth taking if it pays off and gets you out of danger.
Even looking for venues or houses to take refuge in is something to try.
Calling out for help is a waste of breath in an urban area. When at home, if ever I hear a car alarm going off, I don't race out to see who's car's getting nicked. I just wait for ''that damn noise'' (or expletives to the same effect lol) to stop. I know I'm not alone there. If the alarm starts going off but is quickly deactivated, I curse the driver for not knowing how to properly work the alarm system they obviously opted for. When people are screaming in the street, one usually tunes it out as drunken louts and by the time one actually thinks it's worth investigating, it's usually too late.
Screaming for help also alerts your pursuers to your location so that even if you have managed to duck out of sight by rounding a corner or getting behind some obstacle, they have an idea of how far away you are and where to find you. So, SHUT UP. Save your breath for running.
Since this was their local area, I am surprised your sons didn't try to elude their pursuers by taking streets they knew.
Here's another trick one can use which I have done so. At night, the dark is your friend. Shadows can conceal you very, VERY effectively. If you crouch down in an unnatural position, you can be mistaken for a bush even if passed mere feet away. I have terrified many friends by appearing from ''nowhere.'' It is a survival technique I learned from someone who was in the British amy a long time ago. Even laying down in a shadow can be effective but I only do that if some distance away as it is not a good position to be able to immediately run for it if need be. When I want to check if I should be worried about that someone behind me a few dozen metres, I look for the shadows cast by telegraph poles on the pavement and as I step into that shadow, immediately turn around to see the person. This achieves 2 things. It obscures my face and it lets me see them clearly as unlike them, I do not have the immediate light or glare in my eyes making it difficult to see them. It has the bonus effect of achieving momentary invisibility. If they are following you, they likely would stop in their tracks on noticing their quarry has disappeared.
So, besides running, hiding is another good tactic to use.
Violence is the LAST resort, not the ''I'm sick of running! Let's fight!'' or the ''Maybe I can scare them off'' tactic. Violence is not a game. In this day and age of people playing very violent video games and seeing ridiculous sequences involving violence in movie and television entertainment, I do believe folks are unwittingly fooled into thinking they are somehow more capable of dealing with a situation than they truly are. It's one thing to watch an event and study it academically. It's quite another to experience it. Violence is NOT something you want to experience - especially if you're on the losing side and I think catman, your sons will attest to that.
With regards to your sons' legal proceedings, the charge against them, if indeed it is as you say, sounds like a joke! 2 people SURROUNDING 10?!? WTF??? I hope justice is served truly and that the guilty get what they deserve.

Sorry for another War & Peace post, David... :( However, folk did actually respond to the points I'd raised, so it was obvious people were reading it with interest and I felt it important to set the record straight.
Submitted by Johnny B on 20-02-2007

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